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UserID: Winenut Type: CurePVCs Joined: May 05 2013
Thread Started: May 05 2013 Last Post: Jul 17 2018 Last Post By: bfrocks30
Origin: General Topics Total Posts: 27

PACs/PVCs might be related to Electrolye Imbalance - Too Little Potassium

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Posted May 05 2013#1 of 27
WinenutUser Since: May 2013Posts: 2This is my first post...

Magnesium for PACs and PVCs alone just ain't going to do. It only helps...and you'll need to take a PILL form, which takes longer to be metabolized, at least 4-6 times a day...preferably with food. And where no dose is greater than 100-150mg at time. My preferred choice (that works for me) is the Magnesium Malate form by Source Naturals.

But if you've got PVCs or PACs or A-FIB...and have been told by your cardiologist that your heart is fine...then your problem is probably low intercellular Potassium.

You cannot (and doctors should know better, based on over 15 years of research) go by the Blood Serum reading for Potassium or Magnesium. Just not accurate, as the body tries to maintain (conserve) the levels of Potassium, Magnesium, and other minerals) in the blood itself...which for Potassium and Magnesium comprises only about 2-3 percent of your body's total. So you can read high on a blood test, and be low at the intercellular level. And visa versa. And it's the intercelluar level that counts. Not what's in your blood.

Most people over 40 are somewhat low in Magnesium and Postassium. But it's relatively easy to get to the 400mg (US RDA) for Magnesium, and quite hard to achieve the 3500mg (US RDA) let alone the 4600mg (European RDA).

And once you're low, research has shown that it difficult to build it back up. At least at the intercellular level. Particularly if you have a high sodium intake, which your body will chose over the Potassium...as both function as electrolytes.

And without enough Potassium (in your muscle cells), your body cannot properly use the Magnesium...which functions to counter the Calcium ions that trigger muscle contractions...and in particular allow the heart to relax between beats.

And so you end up with TOO MANY Calcium ions with nothing to do (which I refer to as Stray Electrical Activity). You can feel this as micro-twitching (if you really pay attention). But over time, if you allow this condition to continue, slowly but surely HOT SPOTS (areas of enhanced sensitivity) develop in and around your hearts Attria (usually the left one first) and then Ventricles (usually the left one first). These Hot Spots result in the triggering of heart muscle contractions...usually between beats. At least to start. Let this go on for years and/or allow your Potassium to drop too low...and you're in for even more complex arrhythmias, such as A-Fib.

So if your cardiologist (or other doctor) is telling this activity is benign, they don't what they're talking about. If you're getting 3 or more PACs or PVCs per minutes...which is not normal...it will have a negative impact over time. And more Hot Spots will develop.

You need to correct the underlying problem. The electrolyte imbalance...via an increase in your Potassium intake. Something 99.9% of all doctors seem to be blissfully ignorant of.

The problem is knowing how much, and whether you're situation is applicable or not applicable...since you'll have trouble finding any sympathetic physicians...with any knowledge or understanding of the underlying mechanisms involved. Unfortunately these problems appear to ly outside of nearly all medical specialities...with the only treatment options being drugs to mask the problem. And using their solution, as the problem continues to progress, you need more and/or stronger drugs. What a system !!!

Basically too little Potassium results in too much electrical activity. Too much Potassium, and you get too little. What you need to find out is what's in the middle. And whether supplementing with Potassium will achieve that or not. And you cannot rely on Blood Serum readings...and your doctor will NOT be of help. So your stuck...

Too much Potassium, and you'll get light headed, even dizzy...which is the result of your heart slowing down. Take way too much, and your heart can slow too much, and you can die. Which is why Potassium is semi-controlled as a supplement. You'll also have muscle cramps (because the muscles relax too much). Each is related to not having enough electrical activity to keep your muscles functioning...particularly your heart and other organs. Too little Potassium, and you'll have varying arrthymias, muscle twitching, and more.

But simply put...if you've been told that your heart is healthy by a good cardiologist (and preferably had an Echo-Cardiogram to prove it)...and you have significant numbers of PACs and/or PVCs (or worse), you have a 90% (or better) probability that you're low in Potassium...at least where it count. At the intercellular level.

It's best to get the Potassium from food, but it's hard to get enough. Just look at the list of high Potasisum foods and you'll see why. Nearly all are high in sugar and calories. Though Halibit is easily the highest on a per ounce basis. It would take you more than 7 bananas each day. Hope you love bananas.

I had PACs and PVCs for about 18 months before finally, after a lot of research and experimentation, discovered I was low in Potassium. No thanks any doctor.

But then it took time to discover how much I needed and in what form. In my case, I found Potassium Gluconate best, and best in Hard Pill form...which extends the release time. The worst type is what doctors generally prescribe (Potassium Chloride)...which is really ******* the stomach (particularly in the 750mg dose, which is most common).

Currently I'm taking 3-4 99mg pills 4 times days...with great results...particularly at night. If you drink wine or alcohol, beware that it will leach Potassium (and lots of other minerals) from your body. And when I do indulge, I take extra Magnesium and Potassium.

I started out slow...taking only about 500mg per day extra (spread out). And helped. But to prove I was low, after months of doing the 500mg, I cut it out completely...and boy did I notice the missing Potassium. My PACs and PVCs (which were mostly under control by that 500mg) came back almost as severe as they were. I let that go for several weeks...and it got progressively worse. Then I added back the Potassium...and within days, I was back to mostly under control. But it was not perfect...which was reason for that test. And so I slowly increased the dose...taking care to watch for symptoms of too much Potassium. Currently I take about 1500mg-1600mg of Potassium Gluconate (in hard pill form) per day. And more on days when I go wine tasting. Though less those days I eat Halibut.

In my case I believe my PACs and PVCs were triggered by trying to diet and lose weight while pushing myself ******* doing projects that required strenous physical labor...and eventually reached a point where I pushed too far.

BTW. I have had some form of Tachycardia (the fight or flight type) since I was quite young. And it can play havoc wiith PACs and PVCs. My cardiologist gave me a tiny dose of a Beta Blocker...and that helped, but only somewhat...and was completely ineffective against the PACs and PVCs themselves. But I wished I'd never done that, because my body reacted by simply producing more Adenaline...which I found out when I tried to ween myself off of the very small dose of Beta Blocker. My body because super sensitive to any elevated anxiety or physical activity...with some level of tachycardia as a result.

But taking Potassium really cuts down on the number of pseuedo-tachycardia events. I said pseudo, because by taking the Beta Blocker, the periods of elevated heart rate only achieve 80-90 BPM...which is not considered tachycardia...even though it's based on the same mechanism. At night, the max rate is even lower (and often hard to detect)...but it's the same thing. And it's bad for the heart.

Note that my resting heart rate before the Beta Blocker was generally in the low-60's. With the tiny dose of Beta Blocker it falls into the mid-to-high 50's...and lower while sleeping. My blood pressure before was around 114-118 over 72-76. Afterward, it dropped closer to 110 over 68-72.

Note that lack of Potassium can also increase your blood pressure...sometimes quite a bit. So if your blood pressure is low, becareful. To help out a bit, I take a B100 complex...because the Niacin will tend to boost my heart rate and blood pressure a bit.

I also take 200mg of Ubiquinol...which really helps my heart pump strongly. Do not take this too late in the day, or you won't sleep. And because of that, it helps keep me alert...almost like caffeine.

And one more piece of advice on Potassium itself. Don't use the powder or capsule form. It's metabolized way too quickly, and causes far more stomach issues. And just doesn't last. Pay a bit more for the hard pill form.

Steve
Posted May 07 2013#2 of 27
PVCManUser Since: Oct 2009Posts: 228Steve...

Many thanks for posting this excellent article.

I seemed to get my body back into an electrolyte balance by addressing my stomach issues which I believe previously resulted in malabsorption of micro/macro nutrients. I addressed my electrolyte imbalances a little differently from taking supplements, and I didn't do all the research that you have done which you have clearly put a lot of effort into. But I firmly believe my experiences go hand-in-hand with what you've described here.

One thing I did notice when I started to get rid of my PVCs is that the reduction accelerated to pretty much no PVCs at all when I was SCUBA diving in Thailand while eating many bananas every day (which was a recommended source of energy whilst diving). So again this emphasizes what you have said above.

Thanks again for posting this, because I think it is going to be a valuable piece of information for many sufferers.

Phil
Posted May 07 2013#3 of 27
Cubsfan3User Since: Apr 2013Posts: 28Winenut

This is great information. You are exactly right; most doctors could care less what the cause of PVC's are. The only thing they care about is prescribing a beta blocker. I was having PVCs pretty consistently for about the last 4 months. I starting taking an electrolyte drink 3 times daily and the PVCs started to diminish. Now they are totally gone. I have been PVC free for about 3 weeks.
I have a question for you. These "hot spots" you refer to. Do they go away when your electrolytes come into balance or are they a permanent thing?

Posted Jan 11 2014#4 of 27
CruisenalUser Since: Jan 2014Posts: 2Very good article Steve. As you are a "wine nut" like me, I have ran into problems drinking it or even other drinks that have affected my hr. I ran across a magnesium group on FB that has been helpful, but I am still having issues. I will print your post and try what your doing to see if it helps. My condition was a heart murmur or leaky heart valve. Sometimes I get palps like now and other times it's normal but more times normal than not.

I had not increased the potassium like I have magnesium, but will give your plan a try. Thanks for the informative post. Alan

Posted Jan 21 2014#5 of 27
tverdeyUser Since: Jan 2014Posts: 9I would like to mention that I found a cure for my PVC's. I read that taking Hawthorn helped most people having PVC's.
So after having PVC's for 10 years and using Atenolol to treat them, I started taking a STANDARDIZED Hawthorn Extract supplement (You may need to take more or less than what is the Suggested Use). After 4 to 6 weeks my PVC's were completely gone. I still get an occasional PVC that everyone gets, but not the constant runs experienced by PVC's sufferers. I hope this helps as it did for me...
Posted Feb 10 2014#6 of 27
LoveBeatsUser Since: Feb 2014Posts: 9Thank you, this is helpful. The first time I had PVCs that lasted more than a day, I found SlowMag helpful, I took 2 in the morning and 2 at night till they resolved, then one a day for maintenance. I stopped slow mag and they came back, now slow mag isn't helping! I will try the potassium too.

2 weeks of pvcs and it's making me feel drained!

Best Wishes

Posted Feb 13 2014#7 of 27
LoveBeatsUser Since: Feb 2014Posts: 9Ok....so it's 3 days of Magnesium and Potassium....it helps BUT...I need to take it twice a day! It wears off like a medication would and I take both along with Coq10 at 8am, then by 5pm I'm thumping again!! So I have to catch it early and take the vitamins around 3:30 or 4, to prevent thumps.

If I take it late, I get thumps and then have to wait for the vitamins to work. This sucks so much!

Sorry, just getting really ****ed about this.
Posted Feb 17 2014#8 of 27
alfy12User Since: Oct 2013Posts: 22Hello all,

Like Lovebeats, I have been taking supplemental Magnesium and Potassium to improve my ectopic beats. I find that the Magnesium and Potassium have a positive affect earlier in the day but if I continue to take them, my blood pressure drops (110/55) and this in turn causes more PVCs. I have noted that my pvcs are worse at different times of the day with me having up to 20 a minute when bad. A good time of day is first thing of a morning when I only get 1 or 2 a minute.

My doctor has taken me off the calcium channel blocker as I was struggling to breathe and had asthma type symptoms. He said that I don't need any medication (easy for him to say). My doctor gave me the results of my Holter monitor which was 5596 ectopics but I was having a good day when tested.

So far I have tried Magnesium supplements (caused low blood pressure), Taurine (caused my first Ventricular Tachycardia),
Co-Enzyme Q10 and various vitamins. So far I haven't struck a solution but I'm still searching.

Just be careful if you are going to take supplemental Potassium or Magnesium. Excessive Potassium can lead to Heart block and Magnesium can slow the heart rate and cause low blood pressure in otherwise healthy individuals.

I went to the ER the other day because I couldn't breathe and had very bad PVCs. They made me wait 4 hours and then asked me what I was doing there. They more or less told me to go away. Country hospitals suck.

I try not to let the PVCs get me down and I'm getting on with life with the support of my wife. I walk the dog each morning and go to an active job each day. I don't drink any Caffeine based drinks, Alcohol or anything with stimulants in it like energy drinks.

I believe keeping stress under control is extremely important as well as the dietary solutions.

Cheers

Alf
Posted Feb 18 2014#9 of 27
Cubsfan3User Since: Apr 2013Posts: 28Alfy

Do you do any type of cardio workouts? I recently started playing hockey again and my PVC's have decreased dramatically. Yesterday, I had 2 all day. Today I think I have had about 6-7. There are days, and thankfully they are few and far between, where I have 17-18 per minute all day long. Typically I was averaging about 150+ per day until I started playing hockey 3 weeks ago. Since then I would say I average less than 10 per day. I also, make sure I get enough potassium. I usually drink coconut water everyday which has alot of potassium. In addition, I also drink alot of carrot juice which is also high in potassium. I try to avoid processed foods as well.

Posted Dec 20 2014#10 of 27
SuzLinUser Since: Dec 2014Posts: 4I find that when I use my elliptical I have none while doing it and hardly any after. I have a handful of health issues and still try to say "focus on what my body is doing right!" Sometimes I wonder if the PVCs are happening because my heart is actually trying to correct an issue.
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